A 21-year-old tourist has described the horrendous treatment he allegedly received after being denied entry to the USA due to a meme depicting JD Vance as bald being found on his phone
Our leaders are NOT Snowflakes or Emotional!
Or else!
This not only has been going on awhile, it’s worse than it sounds.
A French scientist was denied entry at the border earlier this year, in March, after officers unearthed messages criticising Trump on his phone.
Mikkelsen explained: “They threatened me with a minimum fine of $5,000 or five years in prison if I refused to provide the password to my phone.”
Any idea if these threats are actionable? He’s not a US citizen to just fine or imprison.
They have “deported” dozens of US citizens at this point. Usually, being a non-citizen makes you more vulnerable to arbitrary bullshit at the border, whereas if you’re a citizen you can stand up much more so for your rights if they’re trying to push you into something illegal, but as of this year it’s starting to matter less and less.
Everything is actionable once the rule of law collapses. At this point, if you’re crossing the border, you’re in danger of whatever they want to do to you.
i think this is a concept that a lot of people are having a hard time grasping: laws are meaningless if no one enforces them. this 100% applies both to laws meant to protect you, AND laws meant to punish those who are harming you
On the other hand his actions are not regulated by law or by any clearly formulated code of behaviour. In Oceania there is no law. Thoughts and actions which, when detected, mean certain death are not formally forbidden, and the endless purges, arrests, tortures, imprisonments, and vaporizations are not inflicted as punishment for crimes which have actually been committed, but are merely the wiping-out of persons who might perhaps commit a crime at some time in the future.
-1984
There’s neither even a rhyme nor reason to Trump’s fascism (or to fascism in general). But it does correlate with the observation that they are fantasists. They do things out of whim and emotions, disregarding expert advice and opinions. Any promulgation of fascism will eventually lead to its own downfall, because they live in a fantasy world where they believe that their will alone could shape reality; ignoring the basic common sense that reality could never be altered to one’s desires.
they are not legal, as the first amendment applies even to noncitizens. however that doesn’t mean they can’t deny entry for “any” reason. they are fascist after all.
Basically like firing you from work for discrimination isn’t legal, but firing you for performance is (your performance being anything they wish to come up with).
It has been ruled by SCOTUS that the Constitution specifically does not apply at border entry to non-citizens:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_ex_rel._Knauff_v._Shaughnessy
the Constitution does not grant aliens any protections when trying to enter the United States.
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C18-8-7-3/ALDE_00001263/[‘article’, ‘14’]
an alien “on the threshold of initial entry stands on a different footing” because he or she is theoretically outside the United States and typically beyond the veil of constitutional protection.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/345/206/
Although a lawfully resident alien may not captiously be deprived of his constitutional rights [to due process], the alien in this case is an entrant alien or “assimilated to that status” for constitutional purposes.
The Attorney General therefore may exclude this alien without a hearing, as authorized by the emergency regulations promulgated pursuant to the Passport Act, and need not disclose the evidence upon which that determination rests.
Depressingly, SCOTUS has ruled that you really don’t have the same rights at border crossings as you do once you’ve passed through.
This applies to citizens as well as foreign nationals.
You have even less rights at border crossings if you are not a citizen and have not technically entered the country through immigration yet… basically the Constitution does not even apply:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_ex_rel._Knauff_v._Shaughnessy
Once you’re in a country you are subject to that country’s laws, it’s a thing you need to be aware of when traveling. A lot of people find that out the hard way.
So yea, they are actionable if they want it to be.
It’s against American law.
He’s not a US citizen to just fine or imprison.
…
You legitimately think if you’re not a citizen of a country you’re not subject to any of their laws?
Is that like a sovereign citizen thing or something?
It’s not an unreasonable question for land borders.
If a non-citizen has not yet entered the country, why should agents have the right to imprison and fine them if they aren’t an active threat? Deny them entry and ban them from returning, sure. Dragging a foreign national into the country and punishing them over their refusal to consent to a search? Excessive.
If a non-citizen has not yet entered the country
What are they doing at a border station?
Like, a big problem here is you don’t seem to know how border stations work, or where they are.
How can a country control a border station that’s not within their own borders?
This is very very basic parts of the topic you’re deciding to weigh in on…
Dragging a foreign national into the country
Like, have you ever crossed an international border before?
You know exactly what I meant. Stop being pedantic.
Somebody requests entry to a country and has to step onto that country’s soil in order to be processed. That country reasonably has the right to deny the request, prevent further entry, and send you back to where you came from.
The same can not be said for detaining and imprisoning a foreign national who does not pose any immediate threat or clearly intend to cause harm. If they refuse to leave, that’s fair game. If they’re prevented from leaving and instead detained and imprisoned, that’s abduction.
The obvious answer the question the other commenter asked was, no shit, nobody is going to stop them from doing whatever they want on their own land. That doesn’t make the practice of doing so morally acceptable or permissible for international relations.
Somebody requests entry to a country and has to step onto that country’s soil in order to be processed.
Nope.
You don’t stand on the other side of a line and ask Red Rover if you can cross the border.
You cross the border, and deal with customs/border personal.
If you’re talking to an American customs/borders worker, you’re already in America. Same for every other country.
I didn’t read the rest of your comment tho. Good luck finding someone willing to explain specifics without being pedantic.
You are literally agreeing with that statement. They said yes, the person had to cross over, yes they’re on soil, but they clearly presented themself at an entry point, not just being randomly found somewhere, so the obvious answer to ‘no we don’t want you here’ is to tell someone to turn around, not detain them.
You deny entry.
Yes, airports are hard exactly because of that but you deny entry.
Won’t let us search your phone? Go home wanker. Not, "Won’t let us search your phone? That’ll be $5k and a few months of your life.’
You deny entry.
After they’ve entered the country?
I’m starting to think people are messing with me, this is how shit has worked since 9/11. To a lesser extent even earlier.
And for the record, I’m not advocating for a system I think is fair. I’m explaining reality.
If a drug smuggler, terrorist, murderer on the lamb, serial jaywalker, really any type of criminal tries to enter your country, you wouldn’t want to risk sending them back and them coming back over tomorrow.
Because they would just keep trying, every day, until they made it over.
Now, I have been turned away at the border before. Twice actually.
The first time it happened, you know what we did?
Went to a gas station in Detroit in at like 2am, cleaned out our vehicle, and then took the alternate entry into Canada
Canada rejecting me the first time kept me out a grand total of 45 minutes.
That is why the system that trump is currently abusing exists to be abused at individual workers discretion at virtually every land border outside of areas like the EU with virtually zero border security within the larger unit.
I really hope that helps people understand
How do you put someone in prison who has not entered your country yet?
And I thought it was already ruled that they can’t hold someone for that long just for not giving up a password at the border?
shouldve wrote it in french, instead of english. also whats a scientist still doing in the USA, they are usually fleeing the us.
This can’t be true because conservatives always cry about free speech.
If this is true then that means conservatives are massive hypocritical assholes.
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You don’t think they would do that?
Just go on the internet and tell lies?
imagine going on holiday in a country where they check your phone for memes
seeing the grand canyon seems cool but it can wait until that lunatic and his friends are gone
Keep in mind that TSA searching peoples’ phones was already policy under the last few administrations. Which is part of why I wasnt interested in traveling there even before the lunatic.
I’ve been avoiding travel to the US since the Patriot Act that followed 9/11 started that kind of shit and more in general the US started moving away from Democracy and into Autocracy.
Last time I felt like traveling to the North American continent I just went to Canada instead for a whole month - sea kayaking in British Columbia, hiking in the Canadian Rockies, sightseeing in Quebec . Highly recommended by the way.
That should be against privacy laws in some countries and considering you can sue people from outside the US into the US court because of US rules it would make sense to have it the same with that human rights form one country exist in other countries. Sadly the world isn’t built ontop of logic.
It’s also a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment.
Within 100 miles of the border there is a warrantless search exception, but I hear you.
The problem is that the Constitution doesn’t have a “except within 100 miles of a border” clause.
The lawlessness and corruption in the US is incredible.
If only there were politicians that upheld the Constitution
that’s crazy honestly
Absolutely!
I have family in the US. Uncles and aunts and cousins. One of my cousins have a child who I’ve never met. I would love to meet them all.
But there is no way I’m going to the states in the current condition. And even if the administration would be replaced, I think it would take years for the states to recover to the point where I would visit.
If they want to see you, they’ll have to come to you.
I thought this was the onion but its real… :)
It seems the mentality of the United States rulership have shifted back to the dark ages.
I wonder if accusing people of being witches is next.
“Land of the free”
“Freedom” just means “thing the fascist US government supports” when they say it. Fascists always co-opt the names of popular concepts and use them to try to legitimize themselves. “Wrapped in the American flag and carrying a cross.”
I wonder if accusing people of being witches is next.
wouldn’t be surprised
accusing people of being ILLEGAL
uhhh this is the new witch hunt buddy, except the townsfolk aren’t in the mob.
seeing the grand canyon seems cool
Seen it several times since I used to live a couple hours away. Ultimately, it’s just a giant hole in the ground in the middle of nowhere. Save your money and your sanity by visiting some other country.
it’s a beautiful hole though
I have to agree.
The United States is such a shithole country lol
No one should travel there.
Um excuse me, who else can defend peace and freedom and democracy? They make all the best weapons!
China makes some pretty good rail guns, im told.
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Waiting for season 2
Pfff we’ll just sanction them into surrender. Works very well, right?
All my plans involving the US have been canceled for the foreseeable future. Fuck that place and Russia too.
US is China now.
I have never had my phone searched for memes (or at all, for that matter) when entering China.
Tankies should be ecstatic.
I had one say they preferred Trump to Hilary because “at least he is helping the USSR expand” so maybe
You gotta screenshot things like that.
Was worth digging through replies because I forgot about the username
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Feel free to read through the comments. The are committed to the whole act including other weird bad takes
For example, all autistic people and psychopaths should be instituted
Oh wow. Hahahaa
I swear to god, I forget how stupid people are sometimes.
And three people downvoted you. My man got receipts.
Tankies? They are looking for red kind of fascism, not fascist kind of fascism.
That’s what the Heritage Foundation says too!
what are we, a bunch of asians?
Why are you bringing up race when somebody is talking about national policy
China is no shithole
China has healthcare.
China also has horrific human rights abuse and rampant organ farming/trafficking.
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So it’s the same, but they have healthcare.
Not if you’re a Uyghur
Uh huh, because there’s no genocide happening in or helped by America.
Whataboutism is not an argument. Also two things can be bad at once, this is not a zero sum game.
1: Whataboutism is a disputed fallacy specifically because dorks like you will screech about pointing out any form of hypocrisy even in discussions on comparative morality and ethics. It is in this manner its own form of thought terminating cliche.
2: What nation is this post about?
Not sure how that’s relevant, but I disagree.
So you’ve got two genocidal states, one has healthcare (that actually does apply to Uyghurs because it’s a cultural genocide/slavery thing not an extermination) and the other wants to start WW3.
Why is the first a shit hole comparable to America? They’re clearly different tiers of fascist states. Everyone not a fascist state>China>Shitholes like America
I’m glad you thoroughly understand the concept of “the lesser evil”
Organ harvesting doesn’t count as healthcare
Please be satire, please be satire…
reads
…Oh, fuck.
Sorry for the mediocre source, but it looks like it got its facts and translation right.
Oh, it’s real. It’s in other places as well.
New profile pic
I’ve finally found my banner pic lol
But, but Elon told me comedy was legal now!
Only if you’re punching down, obviously
Same thing i asked the other guy who posted this.
Do you have a source that isn’t a tabloid? The only other sources i found were other tabloids.
I’m sure horrible shit is happening but tabloids aren’t news. They are meant to get an emotional reaction via mistruths and exaggeration. And you having a one day old account makes this even more suspect.
It was reported first by Nordlys, a local newspaper based in Tromsø, and then picked up by ofher Norwegian media. The story is most likely true.
Well the CPB claims it was for drug use, but I don’t trust them
Though it DOES indicate that there is more to the story than just tabloid bait
At the time (up until 18 hours ago), no.
All things considered, though, the tabloid actually did a decent job of reporting on the story and not sensationalizing it.
If the markers on my search engine are telling me the truth, after I posted this Raw Story picked it up 16 hours ago.
TIME picked it up 3 hours ago.
Mads Mikkelsen
See - this is the thing with people going on about how its so oppressive in countries outside of “The West” where they will arrest people for insulting their king on Facebook or some shit.
We are no better. I’m not American but Britain does the same kind of shit. Read some declassified police case files, the cops pick on weird shit on people’s phones.
I’ve been in Britain before, they didn’t check my phone
And even if, a meme about someone in the UK government would also not get you denied entry.
it would allow you entry
Most likely.
“It says here you are a terrorist, but on your phone there’s a really funny meme about Starmer, so I guess it’s all fine.”
And this is just for insulting the king’s jester.
Read some declassified police case files, the cops pick on weird shit on people’s phones.
Care to link some?
States are states are states are states. They just fucking do that.
Yuup
If you are doing any international travel, leave your personal phone at home and bring a burner.
I have traveled the world, I just returned from China. Nobody has ever asked for my phone. This is crazy and it’s definitely not the norm and is not happening even in very strict regime countries. This is the new USA.
It’s not the norm but it does happen quite a bit, especially in authoritarian countries at land borders where the officials are always looking for a way to justify their jobs. It happened to me last year and that was in China, although in that case leaving not entering.
PS: for info, that was in Xinjiang at possibly the highest security border in the world. I showed the official a bunch of my mundane tourist photos, which was enough to have me on my way. Not a pleasant experience though.
have you tried being non-white /s
Or just not travel to the USA
Just get a burner to travel. Quit bringing your phones here.
Better yet, don’t go at all. Go to a country that’s still a democracy.
I refused to travel to the US in the last Trump administration. I’m certainly not going to do it in this one.
As someone else pointed out in another comment on this thread, US border guards have been searching through phones over multiple administrations now. I’m guessing probably since the advent of smartphones.
Agreed. It’s not safe for anyone at this point.
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yes.
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If it can be unlocked through biometrics yes, according to SCOTUS
ALWAYS use a passcode, you cannot be compelled to divulge those
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I’m not sure about the US, probably, as others have said. Most countries it’s less about a right and more about if you refuse, they’ll just stick you in holding and deny you entry.
Yes, of course they have. Without you being present, even.
They can search your asshole, nevermind your phone.
Did you even say thank you?
